Wednesday, September 18, 2013

Vatican Council II is not ambigous on the issue of other religions and Christian communities.

George:
I am not sure that I agree that he thinks that VCII is a rupture in itself but that the infiltration by the likes of Cardinal Cushing, John Courtney Murray and the countless other modernists that undermined the Council.

Lionel:
Yes he thinks Vatican Council II is a rupture with the past since he thinks the Council is ambigous.

He has accepted the interpretation of the Council according to Cardinal Richard Cushing, John Courtney Murray and the others.

He also does not seem to know that he has a choice.

He does not seem to know that if he does not use the premise of the visible dead, the Council is not a break with the past, on other religions and Christians communities and churches.
Delete
 
George:
I am not sure that I agree that he thinks that VCII is a rupture in itself

Lionel:
George he does think that Vatican Council II is a rupture with the past since he says it is ambigous.The Council is not ambigous on the issue of other religions and Christian communities.

AG 7 and LG 14 interpreted with Feeneyism and not Cushingism affirms the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. There are no known exceptions mentioned in AG 7 or LG 14 or other texts of Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades

(from commensts on the blogpost : Michael Voris, Louie Verrechio using Cushingism instead of Feeneyism to analyse Vatican Council II

http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/michael-voris-louie-verrechio-using.html


 
In a video entitled simply "The Jews", Michael Voris claims, about the Jewish Faith in ancient times: “they had a Temple and offered sacrifice; the entire religion was focused on this one singular point.... Once however the Romans were done with their work, the Jews as the religion of the Covenant no longer existed.... No temple, no sacrifices, no priesthood, no Judaism. What replaced it in history is what has come down to us today: Rabbinical Judaism. This is not the Judaism of the Covenant. It is a man-made religion.”[7] He then went on to equate modern Judaism with Protestantism, labelling both religions originating with man.
Using a press release issued by the Archdiocese of Detroit, the Diocese of Scranton issued this statement in response to a planned speaking engagement of Voris in that diocese:
"The Diocese of Scranton has determined that Mr. Voris will not be allowed to speak in a Diocesan or parish facility. After these engagements were scheduled, the Diocese became aware of concerns about this individual’s views regarding other religious groups. In videos posted on the Internet, Mr. Voris makes comments that certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths. The Catholic Church teaches us to respect all people, regardless of their faith tradition."
"Although the Diocese shares Mr. Voris’ support of efforts to protect human life, his extreme positions on other faiths are not appropriate and therefore the Diocese cannot host him."[]
-Wikipedia, Michael Voris
In April 2011 Voris (who had intended to give a talk entitled "Living Catholicism Radically"[9]) was banned from speaking at Marywood University and any facilities owned by the diocese of Scranton, Pennsylvania.[1] This action was taken after complaints were made about Voris's statement about other religions.[1] In a letter to the talk's organizers (Paul and Kristen Ciaccia), the diocese declared that "it had been informed by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and Mr. Voris's home Archdiocese of Detroit that Voris had caused "a number of controversies" and "that his programs are not endorsed by his home archdiocese".[9] The diocese held that some of his statements "certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths".[2] Voris ascribed this decision to "political correctness. Anything somebody takes offense at, whether it's true or not, seems to be out of bounds."[1] The speech was moved to the Best Western Genetti Hotel and Conference Center in Wilkes-Barre, and the talk's organizers invited local Bishop Joseph Bambera to attend "to evaluate Mr. Voris's knowledge of the faith, free from opinions formed by others."[9] The bishop did not take up the offer. The Ciaccias said the ban "belies deeper inconsistencies in diocesan policy."[9] Voris spoke about the events in a video segment, noting the diocese allowed Sara Bendoraitis, the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Ally Resource Center at American University, to speak at the University of Scranton the previous spring-
-Wikipedia, Michael Voris

12 comments:

George Brenner said...


Lionel:


Yes he ( Michael Voris ) thinks Vatican Council II is a rupture with the past since he thinks the Council is ambigious

George:

Of course the council is ambigious in parts and so loosely worded that even Pope Paul VI had to insert words to the effect that some of the babel had to be interpreted in light of past Church teaching. That is why Cardinal Arize says that altar girls are a mistake. that is why so many liberties and irreverence followed Vatican II. I know that VCII is ambigious in many parts and DO interpret it according to the teachings of Father Feeney. My wife and I spent time with Father Feeney in 1971. So I absolutely disagree with you that saying that the council was and remains ambigious means that you can not interpret it according to the the correct teachings of Father Feeney which I do. You have even posted the video and remarks by Bishop Scheinder on how thecouncil must be clarified. That my friend is because the language in much of VCII is babel and easy to mistort into heresy which has occurred.

JMJ,

George Brenner

Catholic Mission said...

George
I know that VCII is ambigious in many parts and DO interpret it according to the teachings of Father Feeney.

Lionel:

Please show me where the Council contradicts the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

If it does not, then it is not ambigous on the issues of other religions and Christian communities and churches.

Here is my view:-
Lumen Gentium 14 and Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II affirm the literal interpretation of the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/lumen-gentium-14-and-ad-gentes-7.html#links

There is no ambiguity in Lumen Gentium 14 or Ad Gentes 7
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/09/there-is-no-ambiguity-in-lumen-gentium.html#links

George Brenner said...


Lionel:

Please show me where the Council contradicts the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

George:

The council does not contradict the literal interpretation but so much of the wording, thought and implementation as all the VCII Popes lamented allowed for modernists, enemies of the church and satan himself to use the weak wording in many utterance to interpret incorrectly the Cushing slant on there are known folks are gaining salvation by not converting to the one true Catholic Church. You should know this Lionel for this is the very reason for the crisis of faith. The Popes know it and did not remedy this very issue. We are dealing with multiple generations of bad will and evil infiltration by those who are trying to destroy the Catholic Church.


JMJ,

George

George Brenner said...


The main reason that there is so much confusion and outright mis interpretation of " No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church " is not explained and enforced from the top down;plain and simple.

JMJ,

George Brenner

Catholic Mission said...

The council does not contradict the literal interpretation

Lionel:
So you agree that the Council text does not contradict the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Catholic Mission said...

You should know this Lionel for this is the very reason for the crisis of faith
Lionel:
The crisis continues when Michael Voris does not realize it and does not mention it.

George Brenner said...


Vatican Coucil II does not contradict or change the literal interpretation of Father Feeney on No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church but Michael Voris, SSPX, MHFM, others and you and I are not the Pope. The crisis of faith will not end until the Pope clarifies this and a host of other issues on the dilution in the practice and reverence of our Catholic Faith.

JMJ,

George

Catholic Mission said...

Vatican Coucil II does not contradict or change the literal interpretation of Father Feeney on No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church but Michael Voris, SSPX, MHFM, others and you and I are not the Pope.

Lionel:

Just as you are now saying that there are no exceptions mentioned in the text of Vatican Council II to the literal interpertation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Fr.Leonard Feeney I have been saying the same thing for a long time. When the SSPX, Michael Voris, MHFM and the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary say the same thing may be then the pope will understand and respond.

George Brenner said...


Lionel:

Just as you are now saying that there are no exceptions mentioned in the text of Vatican Council II to the literal interpertation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Fr.Leonard Feeney I have been saying the same thing for a long time. When the SSPX, Michael Voris, MHFM and the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary say the same thing may be then the pope will understand and respond.

George: I have asked and prayed for years that the rampant dilution of our faith will not be corrected until the Pope clarifies No Salvation outside the Catholic Church, Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire and invincible ignorance with truth, clarity and simplicity for all to hear, understand and most importantly obey.

Pope Pius IX:

...."But as long as we dwell on earth, encumbered with this soul-dulling, mortal body, let us tenaciously cling to the Catholic doctrine that there is one God, one faith, one baptism (Eph. 4:5); To proceed with further inquiry is contrary to divine law."

JMJ,

George Brenner

Catholic Mission said...

George: I have asked and prayed for years that the rampant dilution of our faith will not be corrected until the Pope clarifies No Salvation outside the Catholic Church, Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire and invincible ignorance with truth, clarity and simplicity for all to hear, understand and most importantly obey.

Lionel:
The traditionalists have to be specific and first make the correction. Then we can expect the pope to take notice or correct hinmself..

It needs to be said that Lumen Gentium 14 and Ad Gentes 7 affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. And, most important, that there are no known exceptions mentioned in Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14.

When the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, SSPX,MHFM,CMRI and others say this clearly in public then we can expect the change to take place.

In Michael Voris' discussion with Louie Verrecchio and Patrick Archbald this fact is not mentioned.

The USCCB also considers invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as exceptions to all needing to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. None of the American traditionalists have commented on this issue.

The USSCB is also using Cushingism in the interpretation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 845,846,1257).

George Brenner said...


Lionel:
The traditionalists have to be specific and first make the correction. Then we can expect the pope to take notice or correct hinmself.

George: I think it is the other way around. The Pope , the vicar of Christ, the successor of St. Peter must explain and teach clearly the Catholic Faith for all to hold as true. Yes we can should and must pray for and prod him directly. If your neighbors house is on fire, you call the fire department and go directly to them to see what you can do. I will once again write the Pope.

JMJ,

George Brenner





Catholic Mission said...

I will once again write the Pope.

Lionel:
What about Michael Voris, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, SSPX (USA), MHFM etc ?