“It is impossible to hold (suppose) the same thing to be and not to be". We cannot say something is F and also not F. In Aristotle's Principle of Non Contradiction one cannot say something exists as A, it is A and it also exists as something else, B.It is B. (1)
So Robert Sungenis cannot say that the baptism of desire exists,is visible to us and cases of persons being saved in invincible ignorance exist and are personally known to us ( and so are exceptions to the dogma on salvation) and at the same time say that these cases are not known to us,they are known only to God.
If being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Ad Gentes 7 (all need faith and baptism for salvation) then he violates the Principle of Non Contradiction. This is also irrational since it would be saying that we can see the dead who are saved.Since only if we can see the dead would they be exceptions to the dogma on salvation.
This would also be heresy since it would mean that a defined dogma has exceptions. (2)
Similalry if he assumes that Lumen Gentium 16(invincible ignorance) contradicts the dogma on salvation the error is not in Vatican Council II but in his assuming that invincible ignorance is visible to us.If he accepted invincible ignorance as being invisible for us then Vatican Council II would not contradict the traditional teaching on othre religions and ecumenism. This is also the error of the sedecantists MHFM, the traditionalists Christopher Ferrara and the SSPX and the liberals Cardinal Walter Kaspar, Fr.Hans Kung etc.This is also the error of the Vatican Curia.
This issue is very important for the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) receiving canonical status in the Catholic Church.Since if Sungenis can show the Vatican Curia that there are no exceptions in Vatican Council II to extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Syllabus of Errors on other religions, then the Council is traditional and supports the SSPX position on other religions and Christian communities. Since Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation. Non Catholics do not have Catholic Faith while Non Christians do not have Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.
Ad Gentes 7 is listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the title Outside the Church There is No Salvation.
-Lionel Andrades
1
Aristotle on Non-Contradiction
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-noncontradiction
2.
SUNGENIS ASSERTS BLATANT HERESY; HE SAYS THERE ARE “EXCEPTIONS” TO THE DEFINED DOGMA “OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION”
Bob Sungenis, Debate on Sedevacantism, Speaking of Outside the Church There is No Salvation: “There are exceptions to that dogma.”
This is heresy. This is a rejection of a defined dogma that there is NO salvation outside the Church. It is also a rejection of Papal Infallibility, which means that God watches over the Church’s dogmatic definitions to keep them from defining error. Even someone such as Msgr. J.C. Fenton had to admit that to assert there are exceptions to this dogma is to deny the dogma. Bob Sungenis is a non-believer who corrupts Catholic beliefs.
Msgr. Joseph Clifford Fenton, The Catholic Church and Salvation, 1958, pp. 124, 126: “The teaching that the dogma of the necessity of the Church for salvation admits of exceptions is, in the last analysis, a denial of the dogma as it has been stated in the authoritative declarations of the ecclesiastical magisterium and even as it is expressed in the axiom or formula ‘Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.’ It is important to note that such teaching is found in Cardinal Newman’s last published study on this subject… Obviously there could be no more effective way of reducing the teaching on the necessity of the Church for the attainment of eternal salvation to an empty formula than the explanation advanced by Newman…”
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Bob_Sungenis_part3.php
We do not know of any remnant saved with invincible ignorance. We do not know if there is a single person this year or the last year saved in invincible ignorance.http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2013/05/we-do-not-know-of-any-remnant-saved.html#links
2.
SUNGENIS ASSERTS BLATANT HERESY; HE SAYS THERE ARE “EXCEPTIONS” TO THE DEFINED DOGMA “OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION”
Bob Sungenis, Debate on Sedevacantism, Speaking of Outside the Church There is No Salvation: “There are exceptions to that dogma.”
This is heresy. This is a rejection of a defined dogma that there is NO salvation outside the Church. It is also a rejection of Papal Infallibility, which means that God watches over the Church’s dogmatic definitions to keep them from defining error. Even someone such as Msgr. J.C. Fenton had to admit that to assert there are exceptions to this dogma is to deny the dogma. Bob Sungenis is a non-believer who corrupts Catholic beliefs.
Msgr. Joseph Clifford Fenton, The Catholic Church and Salvation, 1958, pp. 124, 126: “The teaching that the dogma of the necessity of the Church for salvation admits of exceptions is, in the last analysis, a denial of the dogma as it has been stated in the authoritative declarations of the ecclesiastical magisterium and even as it is expressed in the axiom or formula ‘Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.’ It is important to note that such teaching is found in Cardinal Newman’s last published study on this subject… Obviously there could be no more effective way of reducing the teaching on the necessity of the Church for the attainment of eternal salvation to an empty formula than the explanation advanced by Newman…”
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Bob_Sungenis_part3.php
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1 comment:
"No Salvation outside of Church" Remember were not catholic but Roman Catholic.The Eastern churches where most Councils were had were every bit as much as Catholic as us.If the pope in the first 1,0000 years intervened in another bishops area he would of been told to bugger Off.No Council in the first 1,000 years accepted Roman primacy which was non existant
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