"You don't receive the water you can't be saved? Is that what Jesus is saying? No." says Robert Sungenis (0.58 Pt4 of 6: Is There Salvation Outside of the Church?- Sungenis http://youtu.be/45foZDKg7PI )
This is confusion.Jesus is saying, for Robert Sungenis, that every one in 2013 does not need to receive the baptism of water for salvation? Defacto every one in the present times does!(John 3:5).There are no known exceptions. Sungenis does not know a single person who is an exception. He cannot name any exception in the present times.
(0.09) 'Or the desire of'. Yes a person can be saved with implicit desire but since we do not know these cases in the present times, this is irrelevant to the dogma outside the church there is no salvation or the need for the baptism of water for all (John 3.5,Mark 16:16).
'So that puts a whole different twist on it, doesn't it ?' (2.25) says Robert Sungenis. No it does not! It puts a whole different twist on it only if implicit desire is explicit for us humans.Since implicit desire is known only to God it is not an exception to the dogma on salvation.This is ambiguity, uncalled for.
"We are into a whole new realm here" (3:37). Yes he is about to assume that implicit desire is explicit and so is an exception to the dogma and thus there is a new doctrine.A whole new realm.
"Enter a new term into the formula" (3:50). Exactly! A new term into the formula and one which is irrational.Explicit- implicit desire is a new term and idea.An American one, from Boston.
(5:27) If one is justified or saved it is only known to God. So how is this relevant to the dogma?
(7.17) The Council of Trent on that word desire. The Council of Trent only mentions the possibility of a person being saved with implcit desire. It does not state that these cases are visible to us or that they are relevant or an exception to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
(7.40) Pope Pius IX never said that implicit desire was explicit for us and so an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
It is because of this error of Cardinal Richard Cushing that Robert Sungenis and so many apologists (Patrick Madrid etc) assume that Vatican Council II is a break with the past and contradicts the traditional teaching on other religions and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
There is no anbiguity in the Council but this ambiguity is created, perhaps unintentionally by liberals and traditionalists when they assume that there is visible implicit desire, that we can actually see the dead saved with implicit desire who are exceptions to the dogma on salvation.
This is the false charge made against Fr.Leonard Feeney. How could the Jesuit priest from Boston be faulted for not denying that there are no exceptions to the dogma and that implicit desire and invincible ignorance are not exceptions ?
The Letter of the Holy Office nor Vatican Council II state that implicit desire is visible to us in the present times or is an exception to the traditional teaching on salvation.This is a common error supported by the media.
-Lionel Andrades
Robert Sungenis has an irrational,non traditional, liberal position position on other religions and ecumenism in Vatican Council II with reference to salvation
Robert Sungenis crisis
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