There is no rational basis in Vatican Council II for the liberal interpretation of church or ecumenism

There are comments on Fr. John Zuhlsdorf’s blog.It is said that Pope Francis could have made his statement, on the feast of St.George, in an ambiguous way or even in error. It is said that he was not really referring to the ‘hierarchical’ church as St. Ignatius of Loyola called it but ‘church’ , as used by the liberals in a vague way, including all denominations and believers in Jesus.

Those who have commented as such misunderstand Vatican Council II, since in ecumenism there is no ambiguity in the Council. The liberal interpretation has no rational basis for a false ecumenism. Since according to the Council there can only be an ecumenism of return.

If ‘heretics and schismatics’ do not have to return to the Catholic Church then Vatican Council II contradicts itself. It would indicate a false premise is being used in the interpretation of the Council.

Yet the Council is clear and direct in Ad Gentes 7 which has been placed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 846) under the title Outside the Church there is no salvation.

Ad Gentes 7 says all need faith and baptism for salvation.Heretics and schismatics (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441)  do not have Catholic Faith which is needed to go to Heaven. So the Council supports Pope Francis when he says ‘it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church’, the Church being necessary to know Jesus and to be saved. We cannot have Jesus without the Church and neither can we separate the Church from the Kingdom (Dominus Iesus et al).

If an ecumenist says Vatican Council II indicates that Christians can be saved in their communities or churches, he is using the familiar false premise, in the interpretation of the Council.

For him, the dead now in Heaven, saved, are physically visible to us on earth. This is the false premise. It implies that we personally know and can see these cases in 2013.So they are known exceptions to Ad Gentes 7, which states all need faith and baptism for salvation.For them this false premise of being able to see the dead-saved, is also a known exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was traditionally known.

So for these ecumenists with a ‘broad’ concept of Church, there are known exceptions in 2013 saved in imperfect communion with the Church (UR), seeds of the word etc.So what is only a possibility is an exception for them. It is on this irrationality that they base their ‘ecumenism of non return’.

Only with an irrational premise can they can create ambiguity and reject the traditional, rational interpretation of Vatican Council II on ecumenism and other religions.

So when Pope Francis says ‘it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church’, he is referring to the teachings of the Catholic Church before and after Vatican Council II.-Lionel Andrades

1. Norah says:

23 April 2013 at 9:18 pm

As someone who watches The Journey Home on EWTN regularly I can’t believe that one can’t find Jesus outside of the Catholic Church. Those converts to the Faith found Jesus from their parents and in their former ecclesial communities. Because they loved Jesus they came into the fullness of God’s revelation when they entered the Catholic Church. The love those converts actively demonstrate for Jesus puts many Catholics, including myself, to shame.

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