Most Holy Family Monastery still assume that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus

The sedevacantists Most Holy Family Monastery still assume that

1.The baptism of desire is not hypothetical and accepted in faith but that it is visible to us in real life.

2.It is not possible for them to accept that a non Catholic could be saved in another religion in invincible ignorance. Since this would contradict Cantate Domino, the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

If the baptism of desire was really explicit and physically known to us then it would be an exception to every one needing to be a visible member of the Church as the dogma and other magisterial documents assert.

3. Since implicit salvation is explicit for them, they can allegedly see those saved, Vatican Council II contradicts extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

-Lionel Andrades

 

 

Pure Dishonesty

Subject: BOD heretic

Dear Brothers,

Excellent refutation of the "Baptism of desire" heretic, Michael J Cavanaugh. Like all heretics, he simply dismisses the mountains of evidence proving that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, and instead opts for an example that is both fictional and impossible. As you, St. Augustine, and Catholic dogma state, God would never allow a good-willed Catechumen to die without being water baptized. The fact is that the BOD heretics would need to admit that if a man can be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, then so can the Devil be redeemed, since to deny the absolute necessity of water baptism and membership in the Catholic Church for salvation, is to deny the whole point of the Incarnation and Jesus Christ's suffering, Crucifixion and Resurrection. Just as it is impossible for a man to be redeemed without the Sacrament of water baptism, so it is impossible for the Devil to be redeemed.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442, ex cathedra: “Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil [original sin] and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people…” (Denz. 712)

God Bless,

Chris & Jaclyn White

MHFM: Thanks. He’s just a purely evil individual. We had some more exchanges with him in which he not only spews heretical lies, but attempts, in the face of documentation, to deny that the priests he supports believe that non-Catholics can be saved. These people are so dishonest that they not only commit mortal sin by falsely asserting that their heretical priests, etc. do not believe souls can be saved in false religions, but they do so while holding the position themselves. In other words, they act as if it’s unthinkable that anyone could possibly believe that heresy when they believe it themselves! The reason they act in this fashion is they are ashamed to admit what they really believe (for they realize it flies in the face of defined dogma), so they simply lie and pretend that they and others don’t actually believe what we know they believe and teach. If we did not see this type of dishonesty so frequently in dealing with divers heretics, we would find it mind-boggling; but it’s actually typical among salvation heretics.

For example, here are a few more exchanges with the heretic.

[HIS RESPONSE]

Brothers read this and weep. Here is a true theologian. [He promotes the pathetic arguments of the deceased Fr. Martin Stepanich; and while defending heretics such as Dolan and Sanborn, he also recognizes as Catholic the heretic Droleskey. See our recent video on Stepanich, in which we cover his heresy and lies: Priest Dies and Goes to Hell [video].]

Your venomous mouth is from Satan and your eyes blind to the truth like the Pharisees. You accuse me of being of bad will but you exercise it… You totally misrepresent the Council of Trent which clearly recognizes baptism of desire and baptism of blood….I will accept the true teaching of the Church whatever it is. Unfortunately we do not have a Church now to directly refute your heresy but we do have St Alphonsus, St Thomas Aquinas and Church doctrine to give the lie to your heresies.

Where do you get the crazy idea that myself or the others mentioned hold that a person who doesn't believe in Christ and would reject Him can get to heaven? It is just the opposite. Only those who love Christ and desire baptism would be afforded baptism through the mercy of God only because water baptism was not available to them. Yes it is absolutely necessary to have faith in Christ and the Trinity. Your assertion that God would not allow a situation to arise as I portrayed is ridiculous. It has happened to many canonized saints as you must be aware.

Michael J. Cavanaugh

MHFM RESPONSE- This shows how completely blind you are. It's a documented fact that Stepanich, Droleskey, Sanborn, Dolan, etc. all hold that souls can be saved in false religions and without faith in Christ, even for those who reject Him. We've documented this in writing and in videos. You defend that heresy by promoting such evil unbelievers. Here's a little table about how the aforementioned individuals agree with Fr. Denis Fahey, who taught that Jews who reject Christ can be in the state of grace and saved. Do you condemn Fahey's statement here as heretical, in which he says a Jew who rejects Christ can be in the state of grace? [All of your false claims about BOD have already been refuted, by the way.]

Fr. Denis Fahey, The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation (1953), p. 52: “The Jews, as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in complete opposition to the order God wants. It is possible that a member of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural life which God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness God wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good. If a Jew who rejects our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which he and his nation are engaged.”

The Catholic Church, Pope Eugene IV, The Council of Florence, Jesus Christ, St. John and St. Peter Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Denz. 714) Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1441, ex cathedra:“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, the Mosaic law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time [the promulgation of the Gospel] observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.” (Denz. 712) 1 John 5:11-12: “And this is the testimony, that God hath given to us eternal life. And this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son, hath life. He that hath not the Son, hath not life.” “For God so loved the world, as to give His only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in Him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.” (John 3:16) “He that believeth in the Son hath life everlasting: but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36) To assert that one can attain salvation while rejecting Jesus Christ is to disbelieve in the Gospel and to fail to understand its core message. “Now this is life everlasting, that they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3) “And he said to them [the Jews]: You are from beneath, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore, I said to you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he, you shall die in your sin.” (John 8:23-24) “Amen, Amen, I say to you: he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber… I am the door.” (John 10:1, 9) “Jesus saith to them: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6) “… the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ… Nor is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name, under heaven, given to men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12).

Fr. Fahey, Bishops Dolan, McKenna, Sanborn, Fr. Cekada, Tom Droleskey and countless others Fr. Denis Fahey, The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation (1953), p. 52: “The Jews, as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in complete opposition to the order God wants. It is possible that a member of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural life which God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness God wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good. If a Jew who rejects our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which he and his nation are engaged.” Tom Droleskey: “It is, therefore, a little presumptuous to conclude that men who were never once censured during their lives are in error while the man who was called to the Holy Office of the Inquistion (and refused to go after repeated requests) is considered to have had the sole and correct interpretation of the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. Bishops Dolan, Sanborn, Pivarunas, Kelly, and McKenna, each of whom is teaching the Catholic doctrine that was taught by Fathers McNabb and Fahey without being censured, are great champions of the Faith in this era of conciliar apostasy and betrayal.” Bishop Robert McKenna, to MHFM, Nov. 25, 2004: “2. I answer your ‘one simple question’ regarding Fr. Denis Fahey’s saying, ‘The Jews, as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in complete opposition to the order God wants. It is possible that a member of the Jewish Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural life which God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness God wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good. If a Jew who rejects our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which he and his nation are engaged.’ Fr. Fahey in these words is in fact recognizing Baptism of Desire… I could not agree more with what Fr. Fahey says…” Bishop Donald Sanborn: “Vatican II’s idea of the Church is heretical, since it identifies organized religions of pagans and idolaters with the Mystical Body of Christ. The truth is that in no way are pagans and idolaters, as pagans and idolaters, united to the Mystical Body of Christ. If, by some mystery of Providence and Predestination, they [pagans and idolaters] are united to the soul of the Church, and by desire to its body, it is in spite of their paganism and idolatry. It is due to an invincible ignorance of their error.”

CAVANAUGH-

Brothers I believe in everything the Council of Florence promulgated. What Sanborn and others say is that God in His mercy at His own will may choose to save some otherwise lost. A good example is the totally inexplicable deathbed conversion of Dutch Schultz, the notorious Jewish gangster. In a deep coma he was recorded relaying a debate between the devil and the Virgin over his soul. Upon waking up he asked for a priest and was baptized and died...

… my initial question [about ‘baptism of blood’]. 'You stated that God would never put a person in that situation and cited St AugustIne and others to that effect. This is contrary to historical fact. It is precisely because of and through the action of baptism of blood and desire that we see the Good Shepherd taking care of His own and thwarting the efforts of the Evil One to snatch away His lambs. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church but God is not denying entrance to those who love Him and seek entrance but who through no fault of their own can not be baptized with water... I googled and found many saints who were canonized after being martyred without being baptized with water…

Michael J. Cavanaugh

MHFM RESPONSE:

[NOTICE how the liar 1) doesn’t answer the question about Fahey’s statement and 2) demonically lies by falsely asserting that he and the other heretics only believe that people can convert, not that people can be saved in non-Catholic religions! This is truly outrageous dishonesty [SEE THE TABLE ABOVE and the video: Sedevacantist priests deny Catholic salvation dogma for the proof that those heretics do believe souls can be saved in false religions, without faith in Christ, etc.] Heretics like Cavanaugh have no shame to lie, and in the process they only pile damnation on themselves. They won’t escape before the Judgment Seat of Christ. This applies to ALL OF YOU in the ‘traditionalist’ movement who accept such heretics and/or lie by falsely pretending that you and those heretics don’t believe souls can be saved without the Catholic faith. You won’t escape before the Judgment Seat of Christ. Don’t think for one second that you are a Catholic or that you accept the Gospel! You don’t.]

You are a total liar, and your latest e-mail only further confirms it. You refuse to condemn Fahey's statement that Jews who reject Christ can be in the state of grace because you hold that heresy. You then commit MORTAL SIN by falsely saying that Sanborn, etc. don't believe non-Catholics can be saved. In case you attempt to ignore the commandment in that regard, we remind you that it’s a mortal sin to lie in that way. You are satanic.

Sanborn, etc. weren't talking about people who convert. Everyone agrees that people can convert, accept Christ and be baptized. They specifically refer to people who are in 'ignorance' of Christ, or who reject Him, or who belong to a false religion! You are a complete liar. Moreover, as we've pointed out before, the Church has never taught that saints died without baptism. That was the theological conclusion of certain historical writers, and it was never taught by the Magisterium. Your argument is worthless. [Indeed, all the objections you bring up concerning BOD, etc. have already been completely refuted.] The infallible teaching of the Church, which is what binds, teaches that no man gets to Heaven without the Sacrament of Baptism. The Church teaches that no man is saved without the rebirth of WATER AND THE SPIRIT (John 3:5). That’s a dogma. You obstinately reject it and you are not a Catholic. Your failure to condemn Fahey's statement as a heretical rejection of dogma is all one needs to know. [By the way, there’s even more documentation than what’s covered above to refute your false claim that they don’t believe souls can be saved without the Catholic faith.]http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/E-Exchanges.php