VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE TRADITIONAL ECCLESIOLOGY WHICH TAUGHT, FOR SALVATION EVERY ONE NEEDED TO BE A VISIBLE MEMBER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Lionel:

'When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.' Could this also include those saved with a good conscience (LG 16),elements of sanctification (LG , seeds of the word (AG), imperfect communion with the church (UR) etc ?

So in 2013 every adult needs Catholic Faith with the baptism of water for salvation, the baptism of water being the only known and repeatable form of baptism ? There are no known exceptions to the baptism of water and Catholic Faith, for salvation?

Michael:

When we profess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins we are professing that our Lord instituted one sacrament of baptism for the forgiveness of sins, but we are not professing that the baptisms of blood and desire are not included in the one Baptism, for they certainly are, “in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of Water.”

Lionel:

This is one theology.There could be others.If you use the primacy of grace it could be expressed differently.Similalry, if you accept Our Lady as Co Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Grace it is expressed differently. Though the understanding would be the same.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (846) has the same message when it says all who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church.

All this does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the traditional ecclesiology (theological understanding of Church). For salvation, every one needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church and there are no known exceptions of invincible ignorance, implicit desire, good conscience, seeds of the word, imperfect communion with the Church, etc.

The new theology is false if one assumes there are known exceptions to the traditional understanding of Church according to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. -Lionel Andrades

from the Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum. Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican Council II is in accord with the sedevacantist position.http://catholicforum.forumotion.com/t1001-catechism-of-the-catholic-church-and-vatican-council-ii-is-in-accord-with-the-sedevacantist-position#8561