Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Esquilino problems

Last Saturday at Ponte Milvio,Rome an elderly man representing the Esquilino localities( Seven Hills) of Rome, expressed his concern at two mosques being opened between basilicas.He has been among those protesting in the area and it has been reported in the Rome newspapers. 

VATICAN COUNCIL II

Looking at the issue via Vatican Council II I could understand his concern.

Dignitatis Humanae,Vatican Council II mentions that in a society with a secular Constitution a non Catholic has religious liberty. One cannot physically or legally oppose a Muslim's freedom to worship.Morally, for a Catholic, outside the church there is no salvation.All need 'faith and baptism' for salvation (AG 7).A non Catholic has an obligation to enter the Church and to remain in it for salvation.Morally he does not have religious liberty.This is also the Islamic understanding of exclusive salvation in Muslim countries where Christians do not have freedom to worship and profess their faith freely.
Catholics have the religious right according to our Faith, to proclaim Vatican Council II(Dignitatis Humanae) in agreement with the dogma on salvation. We have the moral right because of our Catholic Faith to say other religions are not paths to salvation.This includes Islam. We have a moral right to say non Catholics are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.
LUMEN GENTIUM
Lumen Gentium states non Catholics need to convert into the Church (LG 14).
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. (emphasis added)
This is the same message as Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. Those saved in invincible ignorance or the 'seeds of the word'(AG ) are not known exceptions to AG 7 and LG 14.
So when LG 14 also says the following and it is not contradictory.It is not a known exception.
Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-Lumen Gentium 14.

The above passage is not an exception to the earlier part of LG 14 on the necessity of the Church for salvation.
We do not know any case in 2012 of someone 'knowing that the Catholic Church was ....' and who refused to enter or remain in it and was saved or not saved. Since we cannot judge or know, this is a non issue. It does not contradict the earlier part of LG 14 (or AG 7) which says faith and baptism are needed for all for salvation.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, Himself a man, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself as a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:45), "neither is there salvation in any other" (Acts 4:12). Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door. -Ad Gentes 7. (emphasis added)
So Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14) is in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.Lumen Gentium is not a break with the past as the cardinal suggests.If we could judge,if we knew who is saved in invincible ignorance etc then it would be break with the past. It would contradict the dogma.
NOSTRA AETATE
Nostra Aetate does not state that non Catholics are saved in general in their religion.Neither does it state that non Catholics do not have to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation.We do not know any 'good and holy' non Catholic in 2012 who is saved.

So Nostra Aetate does not contradict AG 7 and LG 14.Nor does it contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Syllabus of Errors.It is not a break with the past since there are no known exceptions.That a good and holy non Catholic can be saved and this would be known only to God is not a problem. It is not a break with the past because these unknown to us cases in the present times are irrelevant to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.They are irrelevant because they are unknown.
DIGNITATIS HUMANAE
Dignitatis Humanae mentions that in a society with a secular Constitution a non Catholic has religious liberty. One cannot physically or legally oppose his freedom of religion.Morally, for a Catholic, outside the church there is no salvation, all need faith and baptism for salvation (AG 7).A non Catholic has an obligation to enter the Church and to remain in it for salvation.Morally he does not have religious liberty.
Among the non Catholics saved who knows and does not know will be decided by God.We cannot judge.This does not contradict AG 7 or LG 14.
So when it is clear that Vatican Council II (AG 7) is in agreement with the dogma on salvation and that LG 16,NA etc do not contradict AG 7 then we Catholics have the religious right according to our Faith, to proclaim Vatican Council II(Dignitatis Humanae)  in agreement with the dogma on salvation. We have the moral right because of our Catholic Faith to say other religions are not paths to salvation. We have a moral right to say non Catholics are on the way to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.
 
 In principle (hypothetically) there can be salvation outside the church however defacto (explictly) we do not know any such case.Also in principle it is possible that all these extraordinary cases could receive also the baptism of water. We don't know. So when Vatican Council II refers to de jure (in principle) cases of non Catholics being saved it is in agreement with Tradition.It does not Contradict the Principle of Non Contradiction. All need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation and we do not know anyone who does not need 'faith and baptism' for salvation in Rome.Lumen Gentium 14 says all who 'know' and do not enter cannot be saved.Non Catholics in Rome know about the Vatican. Their mosques are near basilicas.
-Lionel Andrades

Photos from the website of Militia Christi.

LUMEN GENTIUM 14: FUTILE DISCUSSION ON CATHOLIC ANSWERS

There was a futile discussion on the Catholic Answers forum. The  subject was Lumen Gentium 14.

Lumen Gentium 14 like Ad Gentes 7 indicates that Catholic Faith and the baptism of water are the ordinary means of salvation. The ordinary means of salvation is not those who do not know about the Church or, those who do know and who are known to us.

LG 14 affirms the 'ordinary means of salvation'(Redemptoros Missio 55) .ALL need to enter the Church and not just those whom we think know or do not know.

Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church.-Lumen Gentium 14

When LG 14 mentions those 'who know' it is referring to those who knew about Jesus and the necessity of the Church and who did not enter or persevere in it and who were judged by God. It does not indicate that in general we know these cases or that we can judge them.Personally we cannot.

Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.-Lumen Gentium 14

Then when LG 14 refers to those who are saved with an implicit 'intention' it does not mean that we can judge these cases or that they are 'known exceptions' to all needing to enter the church with 'faith and baptism'. The intention is implicit for us and explicit only for God. Since it is not explicit for us it does not contradict the earlier part of LG 14 quoted above.

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. -Lumen Gentium 14

So LG 14 does not contradict the traditional teaching on salvation. It does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or the Syllabus of Errors.

Vatican Council II ( LG 14,AG 7) is saying outside the church there is no salvation, the Churchis necessary for salvation, all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.-Lionel Andrades
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=466493

It was Christ himself who told Constantine the Great to fight in his name. God is not indifferent but active in our history- Roberto de Mattei














Pof. Roberto de Mattei was speaking yesterday at a Conference on Constantine the Great (Costantino il Grande).It was  organised by the Lepanto Foundation and held  near St.Peter's Basilica. It marked  the 1700th anniversary of the battle at the Milvian Bridge (Ponte Milvio).

Prof. Roberto de Mattei said that this was the first time ever that the Cross of Christ appeared to a Sovereign before a battle.It confirms that God is not indifferent but active in our history.

No Holy War was held under the apparition of a Cross. This was the first Holy War for Christians. They fought in the name of the one true God.It was Christ himself who told Constantine to fight in his name.

The sign in the sky was seen by the whole army and not just Constantine.All saw the sign with the words. They did not doubt.The prodigy was not finished here. The second vision was seen only by Constantine in a dream.

The era of Constantine ended the epoch of the catacombs and was a time of liberty for the Church.Before in thousands Christians were tortured, decapitated and exiled. The Collosium, he said, is a symbol of years of persecution.

Ironically at Vatican Council II,Prof.Mattei observed, Yves Congar said that the Church has exited from the Constantine period.

Today the Faith cannot be proclaimed aloud but has to be kept private.Diocletian lives today, he said but so does Constantine.

The Communists today want a mere Christianity, without Constantine.

The persecution in present times  is juridical, psychological and spiritual.Throughout the world Christians are persecuted and the life of every Christian is one of struggle.

Let us pray for a militant spirit, he said, like Constantine.

Prof. Massimo Viglione presented a brief history of Constantine and his times. He said that on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross last month Pope Benedict XVI remembered Constantine. -Lionel Andrades