Wednesday, September 26, 2012

MORE OF THE SAME

Here is another web blog, a new one with more of the same on the baptism of desire. They have gone to great lengths to cite that the baptism of desire is a teaching of the Church. Agreed . Agreed. Agreed!

Then they assume that the baptism of desire is an exceptions to the dogma! Where in all those quotations is it said that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma?

Then they begin to criticize Fr.Leonard Feeney for rejecting the baptism of desire being an exception to the dogma.

There is no church text which says that the baptism of desire is an exception to the dogma and rationality tells us that we do not know any case in 2012. So what difference does it make if Fr. Leonard Feeney rejected or accepted the baptism of desire?

Since there is no known baptism of desire  there is no salvation outside the church. Every one needs to enter the Church for salvation . (extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II (AG 7), Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 etc)
-Lionel Andrades

VATICAN COUNCIL II AND THE CDF,NOTIFICATION DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE SSPX POSITION ON OTHER RELIGIONS

Vatican Council II also does not clash with the CDF Notification on Fr.Jacques Dupuis S.J.


How long more before the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) priests and theologians point out to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican that their position on other religions , at least, is in agreement with Vatican Council II ?


We just have to wait until someone figures out that :


1) The baptism of desire is not an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.


2) Vatican Council II does not contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus – and they were all mistaken over so many years.

The SSPX Chapter communiqué (July 19,2012) shows that they understand the baptism of desire is not an exception to anything.


But someone from the SSPX has to say it aloud so that Archbishop Muller can hear it.


Something like, “ Archbishop Muller there is no explicit invincible ignorance and being saved with a good conscience (LG 16). So Vatican Council II agrees with the SSPX position on other religions!”


The Emperor has no clothes!!!!

“Do you accept a Vatican Council II which says Jews have to convert with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7) for salvation? LG 16 is not a known exception? Will you accept this interpretation of Vatican Council II ?


“Please stop saying that the SSPX does not accept Vatican Council II . It is you Archbishop Di Noia and Cardinals Ladaria and Koch who do not accept Vatican Council II when you all say that Jews do not have to convert in the present times!!”
-Lionel Andrades




THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL II IN NO WAY AFFFECTS THE DOGMA OF NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH- Brian Hughes


What has been declared at the second Vatican Council is no new dogma, but merely the reassertion of an ancient truth, and it in no way affects the dogma of "no salvation outside the Church".- Brian Hughes
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/09/the-second-vatican-council-ii-in-no-way.html#links


ROME HAS TO CONVERT WHEN THE SSPX ANNOUNCES RICHARD CUSHING WAS IN HERESY


HERETICAL BAITS PLACED BEFORE THE SSPX FOR CANONICAL STATUS


Traditionalists still can't accept that we do not know any case of the baptism of desire


Fr. Francois Laisney indicates that for the SSPX the Church is no more ecclesiocentric since there are explicit exceptions to the dogma on salvation


RELIGIOUS SUPERIORS IN WORCESTER CANONICALLY HAVE NO RIGHT TO OFFICE: THEY VIOLATE THE NORMS OF THE EUCHARIST TOO JUST LIKE THE LCWR


DID THE LETTER OF THE HOLY OFFICE 1949 CONTRADICT THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS? NO


CANON 915 ALSO APPLIES TO CARDINAL RAYMOND BURKE

'Even those who do not actually belong to the visible Church, they are objectively oriented towards her - Raffaello Martinelli

BISHOP RAFFAELLO MARTINELLI SAYS THE CHURCH KNOWS OF NO MEANS TO SALVATION OTHER THAN THE BAPTISM OF WATER

However because of the Richard Cushing error he also says that we can hope for the salvation of all infants who die before baptism.


In his leaflet, ‘Why baptize my child?’ (1) he states that the Catholic Church knows of no means to go to Heaven and avoid Hell other than the baptism of water. (CCC1257)

• Through its doctrine and practice, the Church has demonstrated that it doesn’t know any other means, other than baptism, for assuring children access to the eternal beatitude. –Bishop.Raffalo Martinelli


This is the traditional teaching of the Church and also that of Vatican Council II. (AG 7).There are two options. It’s either Hell or Heaven, water baptism of no baptism.


We cannot administer the baptism of desire or blood (martyrdom).


The general, ordinary means of salvation is the baptism of water and if someone is saved with the baptism of desire we wouldn’t know.The ordinary means of salvation is not the baptism of desire.

CUSHING ERROR
Then being a member of the Catholic Church darkened  by the Richard Cushing error, he also says that we can hope for the salvation of all infants who will die without the baptism of water. He cites the International Theological Commission (ITC).


The bishop has to contradict himself since the ITC indicates that the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are exceptions to the traditional teaching on baptism.
In other words we can see the dead saved. The dead are visible to us on earth.


Since they are allegedly visible to us the ITC assumes there is salvation outside the Church in the present times. We know such cases saved in 2012 according to the ITC.


So they assume that infants can also be saved in general. The traditional interpretation of the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus is contradicted. Vatican Council II (AG 7) is also contradicted.


Hence the pamphlets say it’s either the baptism of water or Hell and it also says we can hope for the salvation of infants in general who have not been baptized with water and they will go to Heaven and not Limbo or Hell.


The ‘Yes and No’ confusion in the pamphlet , the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Vatican Council II can be eliminated by acknowledging that the dead are not visible in the present times (2012).


So there are no exceptions to the traditional understanding of the Catholic Faith.-Lionel Andrades

1

OBAMA VOTERS AND HELL

Sister Faustina's Vision of Hell

"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:

The First Torture that constitutes hell is:

The loss of God.

The Second is:

Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is

That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:

The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:

Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:

The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:

Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.

These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings

There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died

There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell

Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)



St. Theresa of Avila's vision of hell...



"A long time after the Lord had already granted me many of the favors I've mentioned and other very lofty ones, while I was in prayer one day, I suddenly found that, without knowing how, I had seemingly been put in hell. I understood that the Lord wanted me to see the place the devils had prepared there for me and which I merited because of my sins. This experience took place within the shortest space of time, but even were I to live for many years I think it would be impossible for me to forget it. The entrance it seems to me was similar to a very long and narrow alleyway, like an oven, low and dark and confined; the floor seemed to me to consist of dirty, muddy water emitting foul stench and swarming with putrid vermin. At the end of the alleyway a hole that looked like a small cupboard was hollowed out in the wall; there I found I was placed in a cramped condition. All of this was delightful to see in comparison with what I felt there. What I have described can hardly be exaggerated.

"What I felt, it seems to me, cannot even begin to be exaggerated; nor can it be understood. I experienced a fire in the soul that I don't know how I could describe. The bodily pains were so unbearable that though I had suffered excruciating ones in this life and according to what doctors say, the worst that can be suffered on earth for all my nerves were shrunken when I was paralyzed, plus many other sufferings of many kinds that I endured and even some as I said, caused by the devil, these were all nothing in comparison with the ones I experienced there. I saw furthermore that they would go on without end and without ever ceasing. This, however, was nothing next to the soul's agonizing: a constriction, a suffocation, an affliction so keenly felt and with such a despairing and tormenting unhappiness that I don't know how to word it strongly enough. To say the experience is as though the soul were continually being wrested from the body would be insufficient, for it would make you think somebody else is taking away the life, whereas here it is the soul itself that tears itself in pieces. The fact is that I don't know how to give a sufficiently powerful description of that interior fire and that despair, coming in addition to such extreme torments and pains. I didn't see who inflicted them on me, but, as it seemed to me, I felt myself burning and crumbling; and I repeat the worst was that interior fire and despair.

Being in such an unwholesome place, so unable to hope for any consolation, I found it impossible either to sit down or to lie down, nor was there any room, even though they put me in this kind of hole made in the wall. Those walls, which were terrifying to see, closed in on themselves and suffocated everything. There was no light, but all was enveloped in the blackest darkness. I don't understand how this could be, that everything painful to see was visible."


Sr.Lucia's Vision of Hell.
"She opened Her hands once more, as She had done the two previous months. The rays [of light] appeared to penetrate the earth, and we saw, as it were, a vast sea of fire. Plunged in this fire, we saw the demons and the souls [of the damned]. The latter were like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, having human forms. They were floating about in that conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames which issued from within themselves, together with great clouds of smoke. Now they fell back on every side like sparks in huge fires, without weight or equilibrium, amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fright (it must have been this sight which caused me to cry out, as people say they heard me). The demons were distinguished [from the souls of the damned] by their terrifying and repellent likeness to frightful and unknown animals, black and transparent like burning coals. That vision only lasted for a moment, thanks to our good Heavenly Mother, Who at the first apparition had promised to take us to Heaven. Without that, I think that we would have died of terror and fear."


Sister Josefa Menendez's Description of Hell


One of the greatest mystics of this century was Sister Josefa Menendez, who died in 1923 at the age of 33. This young Spanish sister, who had a short religious life of great suffering, experienced revelations throughout much of her life, compiled in The Way Of Divine Love. More than once, she was taken to Hell to witness and feel the suffering first-hand. Sister Josefa was reluctant to write on the subject of Hell, and did so only to conform to Our Lord's wishes. Sister Josefa repeatedly dwelt on what she described as the greatest torment of Hell, namely, the soul's inability to love. One of these damned souls cried out: "This is my torture...that I want to love and cannot; there is nothing left me but hatred and despair. If one of us could so much as make a single act of love...But we cannot, we live on hatred and malevolence..." (March 23, 1922).

She records, too, the accusations made against themselves by these unhappy souls: "Some yell because of the martyrdom of their hands. Perhaps they were thieves, for they say: 'Where is our loot now?' ...Cursed hands... Others curse their tongues, their eyes...whatever was the occasion of sin... 'Now, O body, you are paying the price of the delights you granted yourself!...and you did it of your own free will...'" (April 2, 1922).

"I saw several souls fall into Hell, and among them was a child of fifteen, cursing her parents for not having taught her to fear God nor that there was a Hell. Her life had been a short one, she said, but full of sin, for she had given in to all that her body and passions demanded in the way of satisfaction..." (March 22, 1923).

"My soul fell into abysmal depths, the bottom of which cannot be seen, for it is immense. . . ; Then I was pushed into one of those fiery cavities and pressed, as it were, between burning planks, and sharp nails and red-hot irons seemed to be piercing my flesh. I felt as if they were endeavoring to pull out my tongue, but could not. This torture reduced me to such agony that my very eyes seemed to be starting out of their sockets. I think this was because of the fire which burns, burns. . . not a finger nail escapes terrifying torments, and all the time one cannot move even a finger to gain some relief, not change posture, for the body seems flattened out and [yet] doubled in two. Sounds of confusion and blasphemy cease not for an instant. A sickening stench asphyxiates and corrupts everything, it is like the burning of putrefied flesh, mingled with tar and sulfur. . . a mixture to which nothing on earth can be compared. . . although these tortures were terrific, they would be bearable if the soul were at peace. But it suffers indescribably. . . All I have written," she concluded, "is but a shadow of what the soul suffers, for no words can express such dire torment." (September 4, 1922).

"Today, I saw a vast number of people fall into the fiery pit . . . they seemed to be worldlings and a demon cried vociferously: 'The world is ripe for me . . . I know that the best way to get hold of souls is to rouse their desire for enjoyment . . . Put me first . . . me before the rest . . . no humility for me! but let me enjoy myself . . . This sort of thing assures victory to me . . . and they tumble headlong into hell.' " (October 4, 1923)

"Tonight I was transported to a place where all was obscure. . . Around me were seven or eight people; I could see them only by the reflections of the fire. They were seated and were talking together. One said: 'We'll have to be very careful not to be found out, for we might easily be discovered.'

"The devil answered: 'Insinuate yourselves by inducing carelessness in them. . . but keep in the background, so that you are not found out. . . by degrees they will become callous, and you will be able to incline them to evil. Tempt these others to ambition, to self-interest, to acquiring wealth without working, whether it be lawful or not. Excite some to sensuality and love of pleasure. Let vice blind them. . . As to the remainder. . . get in through the heart . . . you know the inclinations of their hearts. . . make them love. . . love passionately. . . work thoroughly. . . take no rest . . . have no pity. Let them cram themselves with food! It will make it all the easier for us. . . Let them get on with their banqueting. Love of pleasure is the door through which you will reach them . . .' " (February 3, 1923).

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