ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE ACKNOWLEDGED INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE AND IMPLICIT DESIRE BUT DID NOT SAY THAT THEY WERE EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA: IT IS THE SSPX BISHOPS AND PRIESTS WHO ASSUME IT IS

In response to a comment in an earlier post I have mentioned that in two quotations on this subject Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre the founder of the Society of St.Pius X has said ‘I repeat, it is possible for someone to be saved in these religions, but they are saved by the Church, and so the formulation is true: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. This must be preached.” [Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, pp. 217-218] Elsewhere he has said that there could be people in other religions saved with implicit desire.

He has not said that these cases are known to us and so they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

It is the SSPX bishops and priests who assume that they are. They assume that implicit desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are explicitly known in the present time.

The Archbishop did not say this.

This is an important point raised. If only the SSPX bishops could see it!

1. Implicit desire etc is not an exception to the literal interpretation of the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney.

2. The Archbishop did not say it was.

3. If the SSPX bishops can realize this then LG 16 is not an exception to the literal ‘formulation’ of extra ecclesiam nulla salus which ‘must be preached’.

4. Then Vatican Council II (AG 7) supports their position on ecumenism and other religions.

5. Then can tell their Jewish critics that :

“We accept Vatican Council II and it says Jews need to convert for salvation while invincible ignorance and a good conscience (LG 16) are not explicit exceptions to the dogma or AG 7.

'So if you say before entering the Catholic Church we should accept Vatican Council II we accept the Council knowing that invincible ignorance etc are not known to us. We reject your interpretation of Vatican Council in which you irrationally assume that invincible ignorance etc are explicit and known to us in the present time and so they are an exception to the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also to Vatican Council (AG 7) and are position on ecumenism and other religions.'

-Lionel Andrades
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KOCH: SSPX WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT JEWS DO NOT NEED TO CONVERT TO RECEIVE CANONICAL STATUS

That’s the bottomline. Cardinal Kurt Koch in his pro-Israel talk last Wednesday at the Angelicum mentioned the conditions for the SSPX to receive full canonical status and be given the green light by Israel and its allies.

Cardinal Kurt Koch, the President of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity and relations with the Jews, Vatican stated:

While Catholics profess that, in the end, all salvation will be accomplished through Jesus Christ, “it does not necessarily follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the son of God,” the cardinal said. “That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery.”

Note well Society of St.Pius X - he is saying 'Catholics profess that, in the end, all salvation will be accomplished through Jesus Christ....’. He does not say that Jews need to convert in the present time but that at some future time unknown to him they will be saved through Jesus Christ. Note : they will be saved by Jesus Christ in their religion and will not have to convert even then too. This is also the view of Pope Benedict XVI and Cardinals Bertone, Bagnasco, Levada...

The SSPX is expected to maintain this un-Biblical teaching (John 3:5, Mk.6:16) contrary to Vatican Council II (AG 7) and other magisterial documents (Dominus Iesus 20 etc)

He added “it does not necessarily follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the son of God,”. This completely ignores Vatican Council II.Vatican Council II indicates all Jews need to convert for salvation (AG 7) but the cardinal cannot mention this.More important even the SSPX will not be able to mention it if they want to remain in the Catholic Church.

The cardinal even believes that Jews can be saved in general in the present time without entering the Church and believing in Jesus. He throws away also the teachings of St.Thomas Aquinas besides Vatican Council II. Is the SSPX ready for this?

The Catholic Church’s relationship to Judaism as taught by the Second Vatican Council and the interpretations and developments of that teaching by subsequent popes, “are binding on a Catholic,” said the Vatican official responsible for relations with the Jews. He means it is binding on a Catholic to accept the interpretation of Vatican Council II approved by Israel and liberal rabbis and not a Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition.

“All the doctrinal decisions of the church are binding on a Catholic, including the Second Vatican Council and all its texts,” Cardinal Koch said when asked if the SSPX would be expected to accept all the teachings of Vatican II. “The ‘Nostra Aetate’ declaration of the Second Vatican Council is a clear decree and is important for every Catholic,” he added.

The Cardinal does not mention Ad Gentes 7 which indicates that Jews need to convert for salvation.Neither does he mention Nostra Aetate 4 which says the Church is the new people of God. Catholics are the Chosen People of God now.

Nostra Aetate does not state that Jews do not need to convert or that Jews are saved in general in their religion, or that Judaism is the ordinary means of salvation or that we know cases in the present times of Jews saved. Yet this is all irrelevant for the Cardinal and the SSPX will be expected to follow the liberal interpretation with no supportive texts from the Council, including Nostra Aetate.

The church’s theological reflection on its Jewish roots, as well as on the relationship between God’s covenant with the Jewish people and the new covenant instituted by Christ have been developed further and authoritatively by Blessed John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, he said. In other words Jesus has made a New Covenant but Jews can be saved in general in their religion with the old covenant. SSPX will have to accept this heresy too.

The cardinal said, “The Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed toward the Jews,” but that does not exclude Christians bearing witness to their faith “in an unassuming and humble manner.” Even though Jesus said 'Go out and preach the Good News... those who do not believe will be condemned', the Vatican policy he says is that the SSPX cannot go out and preach the Good News in public.

-Lionel Andrades

The cardinal's talk is reported on Vatican Insider (La Stampa) and also
http://frstephensmuts.wordpress.com/

SSPX ENDORSES VATICAN COUNCIL II WHICH SAYS BUDDHISTS, MUSLIMS, JEWS NEED TO CONVERT FOR SALVATION: MEDIA MISINFORMED

Therefore, all ( Buddhists, Jews, Muslisms) must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him (for salvation) by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II (emphasis added)

Jewish Left media are welcoming Cardinal Kurt Koch’s ADL-approved talk at the Angelicum University in Rome on May 16. The cardinal’s talk was organised by a rabbi it seems to get the pro-Israel message out before a decision is taken on the SSPX (Society of St.Pius X).

At this ‘interfaith’ meeting of liberals no one commented on Vatican Council II text which indicates Jews need to convert (AG 7) and that Catholics are the new people of God (NA 4). They are the Chosen People now.

Vatican Council II (AG 7) says outside the Church there is no salvation and it agrees with the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus-but this will not be reported.

Imagine the genuine panic if Bishop Richard Williamson of the SSPX says he rejects Vatican Council II (Koch version), accepts Ad Gentes 7 and knows that Lumen Gentium 16 is not an explicit exception of AG 7 or the dogma outside the church no salvation. So many years of false propaganda and liberal ideology will collapse.

Catholics will know the truth.

What the media attribute to the SSPX and a ‘sect’ they will realize is the mainstream, official teaching of the Catholic Church.

So when the media reports that there are doctrinal differences between the SSPX and the Vatican it is amusing. The SSPX can cite text from Vatican Council II, if they want to. Koch cannot.

Nostra Aetate does not state anywhere that Jews do not have to convert for salvation or that Jews are saved in general in their religion or that Judaism is the ordinary means of salvation.

Cardinal Kurt Koch would find no text in the Council to support his claim at the Angelicum that Jews do not have to convert ‘in the present time’.

At the Angelicum Koch was dis regarding Vatican Council II (AG /), the Bible (John 3:5, Mk. 16:16 etc), the Nicene Creed (‘I believe in one baptism’), Dominus Iesus 20, the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846) etc.

When liberals meet in ‘interfaith’ one cannot expect anyone from the Angelicum to stand up and correct them. These lies are taught also by the professors there and the students have learnt to accept it.-Lionel Andrades