Yesterday I visited the office and asked for 10 minutes to ask two questions on Catholic doctrine related to the liturgy.
Today we spoke in English.We agreed that we could not see the dead. The dead saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, seeds of the Word, imperfect communion with the Church, elements of sanctification etc were known only to God. So these cases could not be cited as exceptions to Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which says all need 'faith and baptism' for salvation.He agreed that Vatican Council II does not contradict itself.Lumen Gentium 16 does not contradict Ad Gentes 7.Neither does Vatican Council II contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or, Tradition in general.
So is this an impediment for the priest offering Mass, if it is known and denied in public?
If the priest knowingly denies Vatican Council II(AG 7), the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Nicene Creed (I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins) then this was an issue for the local bishop. The Congregation leaves this issue for the bishop to decide he said.
He offers Mass daily, he said, and he knows that the dead are not visible and these cases are not exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and neither does Vatican Council II contradict itself or the dogma on exclusive salvation.
He said he wanted to restrict himself to the liturgy only, as instructed by Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, and so did not want to talk about the doctrinal issue of the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX).
The message was clear - a priest, bishop or cardinal who offers Holy Mass should not deny Vatican Council II (AG 7),the Nicene Creed and the thrice defined dogma with alleged explicit implicit salvation.
No Magisterial text states that the deceased saved are visible to us on earth or that they are defacto, explicit exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation. This is falsely implied by the media.
The clarification by this official is important for the present SSPX canonical issue.Since it means that Vatican Council II does not contradict the SSPX position on other religions and ecumenism.
The ecclesiology of Vatican Council II is ecclesiocentric.
Vatican Council II is not a break from the past since implicit salvation is never explicit; there is no known salvation outside the church in 2012.
The ecclesiology of Vatican Council II is ecclesiocentric.
Vatican Council II is not a break from the past since implicit salvation is never explicit; there is no known salvation outside the church in 2012.
This is an issue based on universal reason (we cannot see the dead) and not on theology.-Lionel Andrades
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1 comment:
Lionel, your exchange as follows:
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" So is this an impediment for the priest offering Mass, if it is known and denied in public?
If the priest knowingly denies Vatican Council II(AG 7), the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the Nicene Creed (I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins) then this was an issue for the local bishop. The Congregation leaves this issue for the bishop to decide he said. "
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Was this your question, Lionel followed by the reply from the representative of the Cardinal?
If so why or how could he possibly leave a question of such critical importance to our faith up to the 'congregation' and 'local bishop' to decide. Where is the leadership and accountability from above to teach, defend and explain the faith. Sounds like a complete failure to defend the faith by those in the position to do so.
JMJ,
George
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