Saturday, September 22, 2012

A PRIEST'S QUESTION: Lumen Gentium declared at Vatican Council II...?


16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[18] There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9 :4-5): in view of the divine  choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for  the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29-29). But the  plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in  the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold  the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one,  merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day -Lumen Gentium, Vatican Council II
Lionel:
We do not know of any particular exception and neither does Lumen Gentium mention any exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Church (Redemptoris Missio 55). The Church teaches that the ordinary means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.

It recognizes the possibility, known only to God, of non Catholics being saved but this is not the ordinary means .

So in general non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church.

We do not know of any particular exception and neither does Lumen Gentium mention any.

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways

Lionel:
Those who have not yet received the Gospel and who are saved are known only to God. We do not know a single case who can be an exception; who does not have to convert into the Catholic Church as the dogma teaches.

There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9 :4-5):

Lionel:
The Jews need to convert acording to Ad Gentes 7 and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. We do not know any exception today, we do not know any Jew who does not need to convert or who has been saved and is in Heaven in the present times and  Lumen Gentium does not state that we do know these cases.

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems

Lionel:
Again Vatican Council II mentions the possibility of a Moslem being saved but does not state that we know any such case. We do not know any Muslim who is saved or is going to be saved for sure.So Lumen Gentium does not contradict Ad Gentes 7 which says all need Catholic Faith. Neither does it contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
-Lionel Andrades

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