Monday, June 4, 2012

VATICAN COUNCIL II DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF: LUMEN GENTIUM 14 AND AD GENTES 7 DO NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF :NEITHER ARE THEY CONTRADICTED BY LUMEN GENTIUM 16

LUMEN GENTIUM 14 DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/06/lumen-gentium-14-does-not-contradict.html#links
Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church's preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself "by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.- Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II.

Nostra Aetate does not contradict Ad Gentes 7
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/05/nostra-aetate-does-not-contradict-ad.html#links

Here are passages from Lumen Gentium 16

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.-Lumen Gentium 16
Lionel: There can be people saved among those who acknowdge the Creator. They are not saved in general in their religion since the ordinary means of salvation is the Catholic Church. (Redemptoris Missio 55). The ordinary means is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (AG 7).

So in principle all people need to enter the Church and there could be people saved among those who acknowledge the Creator. De facto, in fact, in reality all need to enter the Church for salvation and there are no known exeptions.
In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.-Lumen Gentium 16
Lionel:So in principle they can be saved ‘in certain circumstances’(Letter of the Holy Office) and in general all need to enter the Church for salvation. Defacto, explicitly all need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water or salvation ( AG 7) and there are no known exceptions.So LG 16 does non contradict AG7.Neither does it contradict the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.-Lumen Gentium 16
Lionel: In principle, yes. In reality, we do not know any of these cases in 2012.So they do not contradict AG 7 and LG 14.

-Lionel Andrades
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16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.-Lumen Gentium 16,Vatican Council II (emphasis added)

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