Fr.Tim Finigan on The Hermeneutic of Continuity responds on extra eclesiam nulla salus

Dear Fr. Finigan,

Praised be Jesus and Our Lady.

I asked you someone time back on this blog (The hermenuitic of continuity) if you knew any one saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire, you did not answer.

Fr Tim Finigan :

Lionel, you keep on about the point that "we do not know any case on earth of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance etc" but as I have tried to point out before, we do not actually know for certain any case on earth of anyone saved, except those that the Church has canonised. Your assertion therefore has no force in this argument.

Lionel:

So you agree that we do not know anyone on earth or Heaven saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance, Fr.Tim?

Fr.Tim Finigan:

If it is a question of your judgement or the judgement of the Holy Office in 1949, I will go with the Holy Office.

Lionel:

So will I.

Fr.Tim Finigan:

The letter said quite explicitly: "Now, among those things which the Church has always preached and will never cease to preach is contained also that infallible statement by which we are taught that there is no salvation outside the Church."

Lionel:

Correct so the Letter is saying that there is an infallible statement. It also mentions ‘the dogma ‘in another paragraph.

Here is 'the dogma'. It does not mention any exceptions and says all need to convert into the Church for salvation.

http://catholicism.org/category/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation

Fr.Tim Finigan:

The letter later says: "Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.

Lionel:

 Yes in principle only. As a possibility only. Something known only to God. We cannot know these cases on earth. If someone is saved ‘by desire and longing’ it would be known only to God.So ‘the infallible teaching’ could not include these cases.

Fr.Tim Finigan:

However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God."

Lionel:

We all agree that this is a possibility. It also does not contradict the literal interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus .We know there are no known exceptions.

Fr.Tim Finigan:

This is not presented as an "exception" to the nulla salus doctrine but as a proper understanding of it.

Lionel:

It could never be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. If the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 assumed that it was then it would be an objective, factual error.

Fr.Tim Finigan:

It is you who are in error regarding the faith of the Church and I advise you to submit humbly to the teaching of the Magisterium so clearly expressed on may occasions, rather than to rely on your own private judgement in defiance of that teaching.

Lionel:

I affirm the Magisterium with respect to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as quoted above from the website Catholicism.org .

I accept the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 when it refers to ‘the dogma’, ‘the infallible’ statement.

If the Letter indicates that the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are exceptions to the dogma I reject it since:

1. No other magisterial document makes this claim.

2. It is irrational to assume that there are these cases known on earth and so they could be exceptions to the dogma.

In Christ

Lionel

"Praying for the SSPX to enrich the Church" The hermeneutic of continuity
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