Some closing thoughts
It is a difficult path to walk: on the one part, insisting on the Church's divine institution and the "extrinsic" necessity of belonging to her versus rejecting the absolute intrinsic and formal necessity of belonging to the Church on the other part. It is clear, however, that both the indifferentist position and the rigorist position pose serious problems from a moral and theological perspective. The former finds its foundation in protestantism and modernism while the latter attempts to quash the former with theological extremism. Neither of them witness to the truth. John Pacheco
John Pacheco
It is a difficult path to walk:
Lionel:
It’s not. As long as you know that there are no defacto exceptions to the dogma there is no confusion.
When one is clear that all those saved are explicit only in Heaven it is not difficult to affirm ‘the formal necessity of belonging to the Church’. Except for the saints we do not know who has been saved in Heaven. While the dogma tells us the all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless at the time of death they converted into the Catholic Church.
John Pacheco
on the one part, insisting on the Church's divine institution and the "extrinsic" necessity of belonging
Lionel:
The dogma demands the extrinsic necessity for all to belong to the Church. The issue is simple here.
John Pacheco
to her versus rejecting the absolute intrinsic and formal necessity of belonging to the Church on the other part.
Lionel:
You would feel the need to reject the absolute and formal necessity of belonging to the Church if you assumed that those saved in invincible ignorance, the baptism of desire, a good conscience, the seeds of the World, elements of sanctification, imperfect communion etc were known visibly on earth and so they are defacto exceptions to the need ‘for the absolute and formal necessity of belonging to the Church’ with no exceptions.
John Pacheco
It is clear, however, that both the indifferentist position and the rigorist position pose serious problems from a moral and theological perspective.
Lionel:
To assume that those saved in invincible ignorance etc are defacto exceptions to the dogma could also lead to indifferentism. It is suggesting that one or more people on earth do not have to formally enter the Church for salvation. It is saying that non Catholics in the present times are being saved in their religions inspite of the different moral teachings.
John Pacheco
The former finds its foundation in protestantism and modernism while the latter attempts to quash the former with theological extremism. Neither of them witness to the truth.
Lionel:
The dogmatic teachings on extra ecclesiam nulla salus could not be considered theological extremism unless you believe there are defacto exceptions and that Vatican Council II has contradicted the dogma.-Lionel Andrades
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