Ultra Traditonalists in accord with Vatican Council II on extra ecclesiam nulla salus

It is from this perspective that the question of "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" - "outside the Church, there is no salvation" must be considered. There is the possibility that a man may be saved OUTSIDE THE FORMAL MEMBERSHIP of the Catholic Church. It is my contention that, in order to quash both the Modernist and Protestant errors, certain ultra-Traditionalist Catholics, or 'Feeneyites', have accepted another heresy, namely, the rigorist view of the subjective necessity of the Church for salvation. In the hopes of putting down religious indifferentism and the attacks on the Church's divine foundation, the followers of Father Feeney are adopting the polarized extreme on this question. Unconsciously, they are falling into the same trap that the Monophysites fell into with the question on Christ's natures. That is why, for instance, the successor of Pope Pius X, Pope Benedict XV, had to reign in a group called 'intergralists' whose excesses in combating Modernism were likewise too extreme.-John Pacheco

Salvation Outside the Church by John Pacheco

http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19990101/ARTICLES/salvation.htm

John Pacheco

There is the possibility that a man may be saved OUTSIDE THE FORMAL MEMBERSHIP of the Catholic Church.

Lionel:

Yes.

John Pachecocertain ultra-Traditionalist Catholics, or 'Feeneyites', have accepted another heresy, namely, the rigorist view of the subjective necessity of the Church for salvation

Lionel:

The rigorist view just cites the popes, the Church Councils, the dogma on extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the saints and Fr.Leonard Feeney.This was the centuries old interpretation of the dogma. It cites Vatican Council II in accord with the dogma. It affirms the baptism of desire in accord with the rigorist view of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

John Pacheco

Pius XII, who affirmed the doctrine in his Encyclicals 'Mystici Corporis (1943 A.D.)' and 'Humani Generis' (1950), also qualified its meaning in attempting to silence Father Leonard Feeney, S.J., an American Jesuit at Boston College and the 'father' of the rigorist movement (whose proponents, whether rightly or wrongly, are now referred to as the 'Feeneyites'). Father Feeney was expelled from his order and then excommunicated in the 1940's for holding and pushing the rigorist view as official Catholic teaching.

Lionel:

The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston affirmed the rigorist view when it mentioned ‘the dogma’, the ‘infallible’statement. The dogma is in accord with the interpretation of Fr.Leonard Feeney.

John Paceheco.

(He was later reconciled to the Church.)

Lionel:

He was later reconciled with the Church without having to recant.

http://www.catholicism.org/downloads/Peter_Vere_SBC.pdf

John Pacecho

In other words, knowledge of the Church and of her Founder is required of anyone for whom is to be considered necessary for salvation." (Catholic Encyclopedia, p.862, Reverend Peter Stravinskas, Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., Huntington, Indiana, 1991)

Lionel:

True and we cannot postulate that most or some people on earth today can be saved or that we can judge if someone has the knowledge for salvation.The dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence and Vatican Council II (AG 7) tell us that all need to convert into the Church for salvation and just those who know.

Pacheco:

The Second Vatican Council also affirmed the qualified teaching in the *Dogmatic* Constitution on the Church: "Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by God through Jesus Christ, would refuse to enter her or to remain in her could not be saved" (Lumen Gentium, 14).

Lionel:

Only God can know who 'knows' or who is in invincible ignorance. The dogma says every one needs to enter the Church.

Pacheco:

Nevertheless, "those also can attain to everlasting salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience" (Lumen Gentium, 16).

Lionel:

We do not know any case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance so it is not an exception to the dogma. This is not a defacto exception. So it should not be implied that these are exceptions to the dogma or Vatican Council II.

Pacheco:

Even the early Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr (First Apology, 46) and Origen (Against Celsus 4:7) did not hold to the strict view. And even those who first appear to hold to such a strict interpretation may not have.

Lionel:

The Church Fathers mentioned the possibility of exceptions, in principle, none of them said that these exceptions were defacto known or that they were explicit exceptions to the dogmatic teaching that all need to convert into the Church. One has to assume this error. It would be irrational since we do not know any such exception in real life.-Lionel Andrades

http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19990101/ARTICLES/salvation.htm

http://catholic-legate.com/Apologetics/Ultra-Traditionalism/Articles/TheQuestionOfSalvationOutsideTheChurch.aspx