SEDEVACANTISTS SLIP ON BOD UNDERSTANDING AND CRITICIZE POPE JOHN PAUL II

It’s a common error on the website of Peter and Michael Dimond. They assume that the Baptism of desire is de facto known to us in the present times. They make this  error and  criticize the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX). Here they assume that Pope John Paul II was wrong.

Pope John Paul II was correct there are those saved explicitly and others implicitly through Jesus and the Church.

How?

Subject: Hi-EWTN exposed?
Hi,
Who are you ? How can you say all of these things about the church and the Pope and EWTN? It is all so shocking? Why are you saying these things?
Judy

MHFM: … Here’s just one heresy from … John Paul II. This statement denies defined Catholic dogma. Again, this is just one of many:

John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (#10), Dec. 7, 1990: “The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church.”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, dogmatic Athanasian Creed, 1439: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity… But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence ,dogmatic Athanasian Creed is saying that everyone with no exception needs to be an explicit member of the Church to go to Heaven.

Pope John Paul too is saying that the ‘universality of salvation is granted to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church’. This is the same message as the Council of Florence.

 Pope John Paul II also refers to those saved implicitly (baptism of desire, invincible ignorance etc), as taught in Mystici Corporis, Council of Trent, Vatican Council II etc. They  also are saved. We must remember that those saved implicitly can only be known to God. They can never de facto known to us as we know the baptism of water. They can never be real and known and so they do not contradict the Council of Florence. Everyone explicitly needs to enter the Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions on earth. If there are any exceptions (invincible ignorance etc) it will be known only to God.

Those saved explicitly refer to de facto cases that we can know of. Those saved implicitly refer to de jure cases that we can only accept in principle and can only know as a concept.

Since one is de facto and the other de jure it does not contradict the Principle on Non Contradiction.

So there is no contradiction between the statements of Pope John Paul II and Pope Eugene IV.

MHFM SLIPS ON BOD DEFINITION AND CRITICIZES SSPX

The Most Holy Family Monastery(MHFM) advises a young man to avoid the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) since they allege that the SSPX like the Catholic Church rejects the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The young man must realize that it is the MHFM which is making an error with the baptism of desire (BOD). In its nature BOD is always unknown defacto to us, it can never be known in reality to us humans, it must be always accepted in principle ( dejure) only. It is unlike the baptism of water which is de facto and repeatable, real and visible.

So if BOD is not defacto known to it does not contradict the dogma as the sedevacantists MHFM state on  their website critical of the SSPX.

SSPX

Hello, I am a 22 year old who recently started going to the TLM mass at the SSPX. I have stumbled across your videos and would like to ask you a few questions…

2.) What are your main problems with the SSPX?...

Thank you

Brian

MHFM:… 2. The SSPX believes in salvation outside the Church… The members of the SSPX also demonstrate a schismatic mentality by regarding Benedict XVI and his “hierarchy” as valid, but obstinately operating independently of them. All of that is explained in this file: The Society of St. Pius X [Link to Section]. Here are two quick examples of blatant heresy:

Fr. Schmidberger, Time Bombs of the Second Vatican Council, Angelus Press [SSPX], p. 10: “Ladies and gentlemen, it is clear that the followers of other religions can be saved under certain conditions, that is to say, if they are in invincible error.”

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, Angelus Press [SSPX], p. 216: “Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion.”-- E-Exchanges on the Catholic Church and other issues, Most Holy Family Monastery

Note :  the followers of other religions ‘in certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949) and known only to God can be saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance. This is a probability, we accept this in principle. We do not know any such case on earth. So it does not contradict the dogma Cantate Domino or Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.

When Archbishop Lefebvre said ‘Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) he was referring to a probability known to God and which in its very nature is always de jure and never de facto known to us. So Archbishop Lefebvre was not denying or contradicting the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

The MHFM,Peter and Michael Dimond,  make this common error since they assume that BOD is as visible and real as the baptism of water and so it contradicts the dogma outside the church there is no salvation.

Since they consider BOD as real and known to us, they reject BOD. This is a rejection of a teaching of the Council of Trent and is heresy.