Thursday, July 21, 2011

CATHOLIC PRIESTS CORRECT POPE BENEDICT'S MISTAKE : WE DO NOT KNOW ANY CASE OF A NON CATHOLIC SAVED IMPLICITLY BY JESUS AND THE CHURCH SO IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT CANTATE DOMINO,COUNCIL OF FLORENCE

Catholic priests have said that we do not know any case of a non Catholic saved implicitly by Jesus and the Church. Neither do we know any case of a non Catholic saved with the baptism of desire or in invincible ignorance.


Catholic priests have said, it is reported on this blog, that the dogma Cantate Domino, Council of Florence is de fide and is not contradicted by Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
So when the pope says that we do not have to pray for the conversion of the Jews in the present times what text is he using to base this statement?

The Bible tells us Jews need to convert into the Church Jesus founded and if they do not they will be condemned to Hell (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, John 6 (the necessity of the Eucharist etc).

Magisterial documents during the Pontificate of Pope John Paul II has the same message (CCC 845,846, Dominus Iesus 20, Ecclesia di Eucrestia (outside the church no salvation ecclesiology etc).

Church Councils and popes have in the Extraordinary and Ordinary Mode affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says Jews need to convert in the present times.

Pope Benedict XVI in Light to the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald also repeats that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.

Pope Benedict XVI says that he has revised the ancient liturgy (on Good Friday) so that it does not say that Jews need to convert in the present times but that they will convert in a future time (eschatological time).
So he is saying that he has revised the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews which now says Jews do not have to convert in the present times.


I modified it in such a way that… one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews…but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united.-Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius) p.107
Pope Benedict XVI states above that he revised the Good Friday Prayer ‘in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all.’ (This of course does not say that all Jews are on the path to Hell unless they convert as the Church has taught for centuries. This was the one way of salvation) The pope says ‘that there do not exist two ways of salvation’( The pope indicates there is only one way of salvation and Jews are saved in general through this one way; Christ and the Church, and so they do not have to convert. Catholic priests have pointed out that we do not know any case of a non Catholic saved by Jesus and the Church. There is no case of implicit salvation which is explicit for us. The dogma says everyone needs to be an explicit member of the Church. So the pope’s one way of salvation is a strawman) The pope continues ‘and that therefore Christ is also the saviour of the Jews, and not only of the pagans ‘(Christ is the Saviour of the Jews and pagans and they are saved, even if they do not enter the Catholic Church? Pope John Paul II’s Dominus Iesus n.20 says Jesus has died for all but to receive this salvation they need to enter the Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 says that the Church is like a door in which all need to enter, Ad Gentes 7 says all need baptism for salvation).

The dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Ad Gentes 7,Vatican Council II and Dominus Iesus 20 say there is only one way of salvation and everyone with no exception needs to enter the Church to be saved.

The pope’s 'one way of salvation' includes those saved in invincible ignorance etc (Lumen Gentium 16). The book actually contradicts Lumen Gentium 16, Vatican Council II, which does not claim that we know personally, people saved in invincible ignorance. So it is wrongly assumed that LG 16 contradicts the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. LG 16 refers to implicit salvation and not to explicit cases known to us. We can affirm LG 16 and also Cantate Domino, Council of Florence. Rationality tells us that we do not know a single case in the present times of a person saved in invincible ignorance. So how can it contradict extra ecclesiam nulla salus? So the pope’s ‘no two ways of salvation’ is not rational or Catholic

A front page article (April 10, 2008) in the L’Osservatore Romano was written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar .It was presented to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State. It was approved by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.

The article said that Vatican Council II indicated that non Catholics can be saved. So Cardinal Kaspar concluded that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.

Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and Faith, Vatican also never issued a clarification when on Sept 22,2009 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, President of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Italy quoted Cardinal Bertone saying that the Revised Good Friday Prayer was not for the conversion of the Jews and Jews do not have to convert.

Angelo Bagnasco, Archbishop of Genoa and President of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference (CEI) stated that Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State had clearly expressed the sentiments of the Holy Father to the Rabbinate of Israel after the Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was announced. This was reported in Avvenire the daily newspaper of the Italian Bishops Conference. (23.09.2009).

The report further said that after the CEI communiqué emphasized that there was no intention to actively convert Jews the Rabbinical Assembly decided to normalize relations which were broken in 2007. It was also noted that the prayer referred to the conversion of the Jews in the eschatological time (end of time) in the future and not now.

There was to be no conversion of the Jews in the present times, the report indicated and that this had the approval of the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.

The Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was not for the conversion of present day Jews. The Avvenire report was available on the internet (' Gironata ebraico-cristiana riprende la celebrazione commune Bagnasco ai rabbinic Laras e Di Segni : diamo nuovo slancio al dialogo di Lorenzo Rosoli p. 8, Chiesa).

1. Pope Benedict approved the article written on the front page of the L’Osservatore Romano by Cardinal Kaspar and sent to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. The message was Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Also it was alleged that this was taught in Vatican Council II.

2. Pope Benedict approved the meeting of Cardinal Bagnasco with the two Rabbis when Bagnasco issued a directive of the Conference of Catholic Bishops saying that Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Bagnasco claimed that it had the support of the Pope.

3. The pope approved Cardinal Bertone’s claim to the Chief Rabbinate through a Letter, public, that we Catholics had a belief in Jesus. (That was about all). And that the Chief Rabbinate had read the article by Cardinal Kaspar which said Jews do not have to convert in the present times.

This new teaching was been given to us after protests were made by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the Jewish Left. Dialogue with the Vatican was suspended. The issue was the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of Jews.

Pope Benedict XVI is my pope and I pray for him. I would not dare to make any comments on his personality or character. I try to restrict myself to theology and doctrine.

The Catholic priests are clear that we do not know any case of implicit salvation on earth  and so it does not contradict the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which says everyone on earth needs to be a Catholic explicitly  with no exception.


Judaism



I must say that from the first day of my theological studies, the profound unity between the Old and New Testament, between the two parts of our Sacred Scripture, was somehow clear to me. I had realized that we could read the New Testament only together with what had preceded it, otherwise we would not understand it. Then naturally what happened in the Third Reich struck us as Germans, and drove us all the more to look at the people of Israel with humility, shame, and love.

In my theological formation, these things were interwoven, and marked the pathway of my theological thought. So it was clear to me – and here again in absolute continuity with John Paul II – that in my proclamation of the Christian faith there had to be a central place for this new interweaving, with love and understanding, of Israel and the Church, based on respect for each one’s way of being and respective mission[. . .]

A change also seemed necessary to me in the ancient liturgy. In fact, the formula was such as to truly wound the Jews, and it certainly did not express in a positive way the great, profound unity between Old and New Testament. For this reason, I thought that a modification was necessary in the ancient liturgy, in particular in reference to our relationship with our Jewish friends. I modified it in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all. That there do not exist two ways of salvation, and that therefore Christ is also the savior of the Jews, and not only of the pagans. But also in such a way that one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews in a missionary sense, but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united. For this reason, the arguments used polemically against me by a series of theologians are rash, and do not do justice to what was done. - Benedict XVI, “Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times”, Ignatius Press, 2010. (From the website La Chiesa)(Emphasis added)

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According to the Jewish JTA


Italian Jewish leaders drop Church boycott
September 23, 2009

ROME (JTA) -- Italian Jewish leaders will drop their boycott of the Catholic Church's annual celebration of Judaism.

Italian rabbis pulled out of this year's Jan. 17 "Day of Judaism" over the Vatican's reintroduction last year of a Good Friday Latin prayer that appeared to call for the conversion of Jews. The decision to drop the boycott comes after they received assurances that the Church does not actively try to convert Jews.

The Italian Bishops Conference said in a statement that the agreement to resume participation came at a meeting that Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco, the president of the Italian Bishops Council, held Tuesday with Rome Chief Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni and Rabbi Giuseppe Laras, the president of the Italian Rabbinical Assembly.

"There was a common belief that the resumption of this celebration will help mutual understanding and render collaboration for the growth of love towards God and neighbors more fruitful," the statement said.

At the meeting, the statement said, Bagnasco offered Rosh Hashanah greetings and also underscored "in the most absolute way" that the Church has not changed its policy toward the Jews.

"The Conference of Italian Bishops reiterated that it is not the intention of the Catholic Church to work actively for the conversion of the Jews," the statement said.

Bagnasco also expressed concern about continuing incidents of anti-Semitism that he said must be countered.


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