Thursday, April 8, 2010

Wikipedia continues confusion on no salvation outside the church (extra ecclesiam nulla salus)

There is no church document which says that the Church has retracted the teaching that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Catholic Church to avoid Hell. Vatican Council II says outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation, so does the Catechism.

Wikipedia the Internet encyclopaedia continues the confusion on extra ecclesiam nulla salus as if ,the confusion, is a top priority for the Jewish Left media (New York Times etc) who have their own agenda.
Wikipedia  says in the entry extra eccleisam nulla salus:

The Roman Catholic Church also teaches that the doctrine does not mean that everyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned-Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Roman Catholic Church has taught and still teaches that everyone needs to be a member of the Catholic Church through Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water for salvation, to avoid Hell. (Ad Gentes 7).There is no Church document which says that we can know personally that any particular person will not be damned.There is no Church document which says as Wikipedia above, that we know of specific persons who are not visible members of the Church and who will not be damned.

For centuries the Church has taught that everyone needs to be a visible member of the Catholic Church to avoid damnation in Hell -where is the document which refutes this ?

Not in the Catechism.

It is not in Vatican Council II.

Wikipedia begins its opinionated piece as follows:

The Latin phrase Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means: "Outside the Church there is no salvation". The most recent Catholic Catechism interpreted this to mean that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body."
The Catechism of the Catholic Church indicates that de facto non Catholics need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation. It also uses the word all (CCC 836) as does Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7).

CCC 1257 affirms the dogma when it says that the Church knows of no means to eternal beatitude other than the baptism of water. This is a reference to explicit salvation for all with no known exceptions.

Similarly for St. Thomas Aquinas salvation is explicit in only the Catholic Church with no exceptions. St. Thomas Aquinas recognizes the possible exceptions to the baptism of water (invincible ignorance) but does not place the exceptions in opposition to the general rule for everyone; all, needing to enter the Catholic Church to go to Heaven and avoid Hell.Wikipedia makes this mistake.

However, those, who through no fault of their own do not know either the Gospel of Christ or his Church, can achieve salvation by seeking God with a sincere heart and by trying to do God's will (Second Vatican Council). Although God can lead all people to salvation, the Church still has the duty to evangelize all men.-CCC 848
It means that those who are the exceptions to the baptism of water are rare cases,' in certain circumstances’, known only to God (Letter of the Holy Office 1949). We cannot judge. So the explicit salvation teaching for all to enter the Church, of the Catechism of the Catholic Church still holds. It is in accord with the dogma.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says all people need to enter the Catholic Church to go to Heaven, the Church is the only Ark of Noah that saves in the flood and the Catholic Church knows of no other means to eternal beatitude other than the Baptism of water (which is given to adults who have Catholic Faith).The Catechism says God wants all people to be united into the Catholic Church, it is in the Catholic Church that God wants all people to worship him. So this is a reference to the infallible teaching based on the Bible and Catholic Tradition. It is the teaching of the Magisterium of the past and today. It is not mentioned in the Wikipedia propaganda on extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

"Outside the Church There is No Salvation" (846)
How do we understand this saying from the Church Fathers? All salvation comes from Christ through his Body, the Church which is necessary for salvation because Christ is present in his Church...
Here the Catechism places de jure and defacto salvation together. It does not conflict with the ex cathedra teaching that everyone with no exception needs to enter the Catholic Church .We cannot personally know any cases of a genuine invincible ignorance, baptism of desire or a good conscience.So it is only a concept for us.
So if it is only a concept then why mention it as if it refers to de facto salvation which conflicts with the infallible teaching?

The Church as Noah's Ark (845)
The Father wants to reunite all humanity into his Son's Church. According to St. Augustine and St. Ambrose, the Church was prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saved the world from the flood.-CCC 845
Here again we have an affirmation of the ex cathedra dogma, the infallible teaching that de facto everyone needs to enter the only Ark of Salvation.

The dogma, the infallible teaching is that de facto every person needs to enter the Catholic Church, Jesus' Mystical Body (Colossians) for salvation, with no exceptions, known to us. Pope Pius XII called it the infallible teaching (Letter of the Holy Office 1949).The infallible teaching cannot be changed or altered. If it is changed or altered than it is a new doctrine. Then it could wrongly mean that we can also change the Church teaching on abortion, homosexuality etc.

If there are exceptions to the ordinary means of salvation which is the baptism of water and Catholic Faith it will be known to God only and Jesus only will judge. So in a sense mentioning it is irrelevant at the level of personal evangelisation personal contact with non-Catholics.

All are Called (836)
All men are certainly called to this Catholic unity. The Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and all mankind belong to or are ordered to Catholic unity.-CCC 836
Here again we have an affirmation of the ex cathedra dogma and the word all is used as in Ad Gentes 7.

Here is the ex cathedra dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.).

2. “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 302.).

3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Wikipedia does not mention that they are ex cathedra, infallible teachings and so cannot change. It refers to them as 'pertinent teachings' .It  omits the Bull Cantate Domino and includes the Council of Florence.
The ex cathedra dogma does not say that ‘those who through no fault of their own do not know either the Gospel or Christ or his Church, or who have a sincere heart’ do not have to enter the Catholic Church to go to Heaven. Everyone has to enter the Church and there are no exceptions. This was the infallible teaching for centuries (Letter of the Holy Office 1949).

Wikipedia interprets implicit faith (invincible ignorance etc) as the ordinary means of salvation.It also assumes that we can judge specific cases. This is all heresy. There is also no Church document to support their opinion which they repeat through the Jewish Left media.

NO CHURCH DOCUMENT SAYS CHURCH HAS RETRACTED OR CHANGED OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION

I received another e-mail with reference to the post on Cardinal Bernard Law and it seems the lady  thinks that the Catholic Church has retracted the ex cathedra dogma  extra ecclesiam nulla salus (oustide the Church there is no salvation).
She writes:
This is not correct information. Actually, it's correct but it's only part of what the church teaches...
1. The Catholic church recognizes Baptism from other churches like Lutheran, which consider it a Sacrament - that is, if you are a Lutheran coming into the church they DO NOT re-baptize you.
Lionel: The Baptism is valid if you die immediately or are a pagan-convert.However a Lutheran needs to follow the Gospel within the Catholic Church to be saved. The Church teaches that if one dies with one mortal sin the person is oriented to Hell even if he believes in Jesus and is baptized.

Also the Jewish Covenent is still good - Jesus said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it!
Lionel: Yes in the context of morals.
The Jewish Messiah made a New Covenant with his Sacrificial Blood. The Covenants of Abraham and Moses are appreciated but are not salvific.


2. The Catholic church teaches "Salvific Universal" that is:
A. Baptism by water (traditional Baptism)
B. Baptism by blood (if you get martyred for the church even if you are unsaved, that action saves you)
C. Baptism by desire (if you do not have the opportunity to become a Catholic or even a Christian but you try to find the truth in the best way you know how, you can be saved... you are saved through Jesus Christ and the Catholic church whether you know it or not).
Lionel. Correct in exceptional cases, known only to God.In general the ordinary way of salvation is Catholic Faith and the Baptism of water.

‘(this is) …incorrect information - that especially annoys me. You ought to know better... the information I have given is easily obtained in something so simple as the Baltimore Catechism but it's also in the Catholic Catechism as well.

Lionel: The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches outside the Church there is no salvation.
Also the Church has not retracted the ex cathedra, infallible dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Cardinal Law is not incorrect but in the context he is being quoted, it appears that he is teaching incorrect doctrine - as Fr Corapi says "you can prove anything you want by quoting out of context".

Lionel: It is not the doctrine that you will read in the New York Times.It is not one of the secular newspapers interpretation and propaganda on Vatican Council II we are all so familiar with.


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CARDINAL BERNARD FRANCIS LAW INDIRECTLY ENDORSES DOGMA OUTSIDE THE CHURCH NO SALVATION

I yesterday received an e-mail from a friend asking:

… do you have a copy of Cardinal Law's sermon? audio or written? I would like to know exactly what he said becaue it just seemed out of character for him to admit EENS and to quote the dogma.

He was referring to the report on this blog:

CARDINAL BERNARD LAW SAYS JEWS NEED BAPTISM TO JOIN THE 'CHOSEN PEOPLE', THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: EASTER VIGIL SERVICE IN ROME (April 4, 2010 Sunday)

Everyone needs to be baptized within the Catholic Church for salvation is the message of the former Archbishop of Boston.

His Eminence Cardinal Bernard Francis Law, Archpriest of the Papal Basilica of St. Mary Majors, Rome prayed that the Jews, whom he mentioned specifically among all people, be baptized and so join the Chosen People (“popolo eletto”); the Elect, the Catholic Church.

The cardinal was leading the Easter Vigil prayers on Saturday night at the Basilica of St. Mary Majors. There was a large congregation in attendance.

Cardinal Law specifically mentioned after two Old Testament Readings, the necessity of the Jews being baptized for salvation.

Later in his homily in Italian he emphasized the necessity of the Catholic Church for the salvation of all people; all people who enter the Catholic Church.

The cardinal’s message was that Catholics are the ‘chosen people’ of God. He said one cannot separate Jesus from the Catholic Church. Jesus in the Catholic Church is the only way to God the Father. Salvation is available for all baptized persons who enter the Catholic Church. To be saved all people need to worship Jesus in the Catholic Church. He cited various popes.

It may be mentioned that it is an ex cathedra teaching of three popes and Councils that all people with no exception need to join ‘the chosen people’, the Catholic Church for salvation.

1. “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.).
2. “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 302.).
3.“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes7, Lumen Gentium 14) also mentions the need for all people to enter the Catholic Church as the only way of salvation. It indicates that millions of educated, informed non Catholics, who know about the Catholic Church and yet do not enter, are oriented to Hell. They would include most of the population of present-day Israel.

I replied to the e-mail yesterday:

That was an exclusive!

He did not quote EENs (extra ecclesiam nulla salus / outside the Church no salvation). In my report I have used the words, 'it may be mentioned'.

He did refer to the popes.

Indirectly he was supporting EENS.

There are many posts on the internet which appeal to him to stop the sacrilegious Mass and support EENS.

It was a 'coincidence' I was there at that service. He took me by surprise.I began to fumble for my pencil to write what he was saying but realised I was a distractioon for myself and others,so I gave up.

Now that I think about it- it was a FIRST SATURDAY and the basilica was ST:MARY MAJORS.
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